#you wouldn't have called her such when laena rode her

[backjustforberena]

getting sad thinking what could have been if meleys and caraxes fought together against vhagar, like daemon was kinda right they could have beaten that old hag

H finally gets around to clearing her inbox after HOTD 2x04

Yes, I think they probably could have. I just want to say though that... and I don't really know how to word this properly: it was never going to happen. And, when Daemon suggests it, it is a RASH plan. Like, it's dumb and it's destructive. And, as well as that, I don't think it's any coincidence that he never suggests it again.

I think Daemon's suggestion is very, very specific to the scene where he says it. It's an outlet of his grief, it's not a good plan -it's borne out of emotion: rage, grief, worry, impotence and the desire for revenge. The theory of Meleys and Caraxes being able to go toe-to-toe with Vhagar is a strong one. But only in theory.

Daemon is wanting to go right then - when Meleys and Rhaenys are exhausted from patrolling a hundred miles of sea and have been for, we can assume, days straight. They're not in the state to go to a dragon battle. He's also wanting to go to King's Landing: a heavily populated area. We have seen now, thanks to Rook's Rest, the sheer damage a dragon battle can do. No doubt such a battle like that would have the potential to level the entire city which isn't going to be good. That's not something to be brushed under the carpet.

Daemon also isn't including the other dragons in his calculations - the most relevant of which is Sunfyre. Just because he doesn't patrol the city like Vhagar does not mean we have to dismiss him or dismiss Aegon as a fighter. And Daemon has also not included any potential defences that the city might have such as scorpions, which also have the potential to damage or fell Meleys or Caraxes, into his thinking.

Daemon's plan is rash because it's meant to be: that's the point. It's an undesirable plan. And whilst Rhaenys says she won't do it because she hasn't been given the order by Rhaenyra, due to the Queen's absence, notice that when Rhaenyra does come back and says, specifically, that she wants Aemond Targaryen, Daemon doesn't use that to advocate for that plan again. He doesn't show patience or present his thoughts. He doesn't do anything of the sort. He instead goes for Blood & Cheese.

[a0random0gal]

I'm sorry but people hating on Aemond and calling him an asshole for "stealing" Vhagar instantly piss me off.

Like come on seriously.

Now I'll be honest and agree the timing wasn't the best.

(Claiming a dragon at it's rider's funeral is a bit out of touch.)

But people love to demonize him for it as if he had strangled a baby or something.

"Vhagar was meant to pass to one of Laena's daughters!"

I'm sorry when have dragons been passed down like a house? 'Cause last time I checked they are living creatures with their own wills. Your dad could tell your entire life that his dragon is going to you when he dies, but if the dragon doesn't want you, you can't exactly force it to accept you.

Unless you like being burned to death.

If Vhagar wanted to have Baela or Rhaena as her rider she wouldn't have accepted Aemond, heck she wouldn't even have tested him! She would have turned him into the dragon equivalent of a chicken nugget.

He proved his determination and resilience in riding her, a determination that had been born from being mocked and bullied by his brother and nephews for God knows how long!

The boy was frustrated by being seen as less by the other kids. Especially by Rhaenyra's, since they were bastards. As soon as he saw his chance to prove his worth as a Targaryen prince he took it and rode the greatest, most ancient dragon left in Westeros.

It was normal for the twins to be mad at him. After all they were two little girls who had just lost their mother, and I admit, Aemond reacted poorly at their insults, though after finally proving himself, I can understand why he got so cocky.

That said the fight was completely on them and the Strongs. They hit him first, and started ganging up on him. The kid was just defending himself, and remember, Jace was the one who took out a knife. Aemond may have taken a rock and threatened to harm them, but when you're up against 4 other kids all by yourself, you have get a weapon to try and balance out the fight if you want to get out all in one piece.

[sweetestpopcorn]

I’m an avid daemyra fanfic reader and the author of one of the fanfic i’ve read kept saying that Daemon and Laena had a loving marriage. I think they got along but to call their marriage loving seems abit far fetched to me. What are yout thoughts on this?

Hi there!

Before I begin I just want to make it clear that everything I am about to say is regarding the asoiaf canon, not the show canon.

My thoughts are that there are so little details of what Daemon and Laena's marriage looked like that there is a lot of room for people to imagine/make of it what they want.

Suggesting that it was ab___se or that they hated each other, or couldn't stand each other has no ground to stand on, and indeed it does not seem to be the case at all. In fact, I would argue that it goes against the facts we are told in Fire and Blood.

The two of them married, travelled together for months, became parents fairly quickly, and would have become parents again 3 years after the twins were born. Laena was said to have an adventurous spirit, and indeed Daemon seemed adventurous himself, so they did share some commonalities. Furthermore, Laena was beautiful, had typical Valyrian traits just as other women Daemon had affairs with, namely Mysaria of Lys and Rhaenyra (the latter he also married), and was a dragonrider like him. What was more, she rode his father's dragon, Vhagar, which I am sure would have impressed Daemon a lot, and she did since she was quite young, around 11 I believe. Plus, she was the woman who made him a father.

Like I have said before, and my thoughts haven't changed since, I do believe Daemon's opinion/affection of women came in a sort of "brownie-point system" -> You're beautiful, you get a point; you gave me children another point; child was a boy, extra points... You get where this is going. And on this regard I think Laena would have a lot of points.

I see the whole carrying her back to bed as less of a proof of a great love because honestly, I would do that for a stranger if I had to, so I don't see it as a big proof of love. However, we could say that for someone like Daemon - who is not a romantic hero of any kind - that this is a big gesture. That for him this is major, and since George did made a point to add this in, I see some merit in the argument.

Of course that then we have other things to consider when it comes to Laena and Daemon.

For once, his feelings about her that are a deep infatuation/love according to the singers - who Tyrion says should not be trusted and I agree - or a desire to check his own descent and achieve power, are stated, hers for him are not. In fact, the relationship we do hear more about is the friendship between Laena and Rhaenyra, and adding to this, I find it quite strange how willing Laena was to become bff's with her husband's former lover and woman he wanted to marry and openly courted... that is if she loved him all that much. Of course that if it was truly over between Rhaenyra and Daemon one could argue that they were all adults so it wouldn't matter... however the year of our Lord Baby Cheeks Aegon the Cutest of 120 AC tells us it was not that over 😐 and that the minute Laena dropped dead other things started dropping as well (clothes). So, clearly... it was not truly over. Adding to this, we have this said about Laena:

""Her ladyship shows far more interest in flying than in boys," the master at High Tide wrote to the Citadel." (Fire and Blood, pg. 361)

Do we remember the last woman in Fire and Blood who wasn't very interested in boys and preferred her dragon?

Furthermore, on her deathbed, the one Laena sought after was not Daemon. It was Vhagar. This again speaks volumes to me about her feelings towards him.

Am I saying they hated each other or disliked each other? No, of course I am not. I think they were fond of each other, liked some of the same things, shared children together. Do I think they were each other's great love? That they had a passionate marriage? No, I don't. Their closeness with Rhaenyra, plus everything mentioned before, plus what Daemon did the second Laena dropped dead would directly contradict that notion.

HOWEVER, do I think other people can have a different view? I do, and that's fine.

Under the bounds of logic and facts, I think Fire and Blood is written in a such a way that people can have very different views and they are all valid -> not you redacted. If that writer sees their marriage as loving it's her prerogative and it's absolutely fine. I also don't see that notion has directly going against the facts or being so insulting to them it must be a lie.

We have different views and interpret things differently. And I am the first to admit my biases and say I do not think Laena Velaryon is an interesting character. I don't think she adds much, and I don't think she has anything that Rhaenyra doesn't, which is why I think Mysaria is a much more interesting partner to Daemon. Because she is different, she adds something, and has her own personality. And yes, I am a crazy Daemyra shipper who has written more about them than... anyone I think since at least until recently I had the fourth longest asoiaf fic (word count wise) 🤷🏽‍♀️, and I do ship Daemon with Mysaria. I love their dynamic and their story even the toxic aspects of it.

I think the most interesting thing about Laena is actually her friendship with Rhaenyra, and I am much more curious about this than her marriage to Daemon, which I am not interested in and I don't find compelling. Maybe if Rhaenyra didn't exist there could be something because Laena would be a more unique character, but with Rhaenyra there she very much just seems like 2nd option to me 🤷🏽‍♀️ I mean no hate, this is my opinion and I absolutely get that people might think differently. Nonetheless, in my space, answering my asks, I am going to say what I think.

So this is it from me, Anon. Not sure how much I have added to the conversation. Bottom line, lets respect other people's views. They have theirs, we have their own. Maybe we can judge their merit by how many facts and opinions they inject, and how willing they are to admit their biases, but regardless, they are free to think as they like. Lets focus on what we like, and lets ship and let ship 😊

All the best to you!